• November 2011
  • The Two Old Testament Kingdoms & The Two New Testament Churches|The Two Old Testament Kingdoms & The Two New Testament Churches|Forum|Forum: Apocalypse & Armageddon

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    The Two Old Testament Kingdoms & The Two New Testament Churches
    December 24, 2014
    12:47 am
    North America mostly
    Forum Posts: 174
    Member Since:
    November 11, 2011
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    Most people don't know that there are not only two Creation stories (Gen 1:1 & Gen 2:4), but then there are also other dual stories in the early books of the Old Testament. I hear this mentioned often enough on Documentary (History) channels that I kind'a take it for granted that the word is better disseminated in the Public Domain. Sometimes I forget nobody is really listening to this stuff...sort'a like I don't listen to baseball statistics on Sports...in one ear and out the other.

    Nobody reads the Bible. Which is a BIG ADVANTAGE religious fanatics have in their Political arguments (or just talk-radio phone calls) when they say "The Bible Says blah, blah, blah..." The Bible may not (or even may) actually "say" that particular "blah, blah, blah..." but how is the average person to know, because nobody reads the Bible. And most of the Religious fanatics haven't read the Bible either as they are just repeating things they have heard their Priest or Preacher say in Church (or on TV if Televangelists), which might just be a crock of dogshit that isn't even in the Bible. Preachers are some of the worst liars I've ever met. And the thing they lie about the most is what is actually in the Bible, because they know nobody is actually going to read it.

    Most people don't realize there were two separate kingdoms with two separate versions of the early Biblical stories that would later be edited together along with Priestly redactions. Scholars refer to these as the E, J and P sections, or documents, of Genesis. The "E sections" come from the Northern kingdom of Israel (actually Samaria); the "J sections" come from the Southern kingdom of Judah (actually Jerusalem); and then these two separate versions were edited together later by Priests who added their own "P sections." These can all be distinguished by different writing styles and word usage. For instance in the Northern kingdom "E sections" they used "Elohim (the gods plural; i.e. "Let Us make man in Our image")," where in the Southern kingdom "J sections" they used "Jehoveh (i.e. YHVH or Yahveh, "The LORD")." The "P priestly redactions" tend to be impersonal and rely on statistics and genealogies and try to tie E & J together.

    Samaria & Jerusalem were really only combined under (Saul and) king David and his son king Solomon as greater "Israel' for a couple of generations. We have a lot of Biblical "stories" about this short time period that are probably handed down folk tales, and legends about like the handed down British king Arthur Grail Romances. King Solomon chopped down the cherry treesque stories.

    Because then we go through 400 hundred years of genealogies of Kings & Chronicles where not much is going on and everybody has great Jewish names like Abijam; Nadab; Baasha; Elah; Omri; Jehoram; Ahaziah; Jehoash; Jehoahaz; and Amaziah ruling in Samaria & Jerusalem without any modern sounding names in the bunch...and a few hundred years without any new major Jewish Biblical books being written. That's a long time between Best Selling Biblical authors!. That should raise some Red Flags that many of the alleged early books of Bible stories are ALL LATER EMBELLISHMENTS (i.e. Biblical and historical fiction).

    It is not even until in 2nd Chronicles 34:14 that the current High Priest Hilkiah even "discovers" "The Book of the Law of the Lord" while rebuilding the Temple that had been left in ruins in Jerusalem. And this is 18 years into the reign of king Josiah when he then reads the Book and orders the Ark of His own Covenant (2 Chron 34:31 - 35:3) put in that Temple atributed to having been built by Solomon some 400 years prior.

    Then king Josiah screwed up like so many of the Samaria & Jerusalem kings seemed to do--as wrong in the Eyes of the Lord--and went and got himself killed at the real BATTLE OF ARMAGEDDON (2 Chron 35:20 - 22) c. 608 BCE.

    What you have in the Old Testament are a collection, a Priestly Library, of scrolls (books) from 2 separate Semitic kingdoms of Samaria & Jerusalem, at some time period being edited together during, and after, the complete defeat and destruction of those kingdoms by the Babylonians and the return of the poor Jews to Jerusalem (why mostly the Southern or Jerusalem slant on the Biblical stories) after the Persian Messiah, Cyrus The Great, in 538 BCE, overthrew " king "Lucifer The Mighty" of Babylon in a single night...thus the Biblical joke, "Oh how the mighty have fallen." Cyrus sent in his version of SEAL Team 6 and the next morning All the Babylonians woke up discovering they were ALL NOW PERSIANS and business pretty much just went on as usual. The Babylonians had thought "Lucifer" a jerk of a king anyway and were happy Cyrus had killed him. The rich Jewish Businessmen of Babylon stayed in Babylon because business on the major Trade Routes was good, and gave money to the poor Jewish religious fanatics who were going back to try and rebuild the ruins of Jerusalem as their own "kingdom of God" once again. This is basically what the books of Ezra & Nehemiah are all about. At the height of its power under king Solomon the kingdom of God was never any bigger in size, in the Ancient World, than New Jersey. And yet 4 good size major modern supernatural preaching Religions have grown out of this pipsqueak of a territory's somewhat plagiarized from the Sumerians, Egyptians, Babylonians and Assyrians library. God do work in mysterious ways.

    Somehow over time the Priestly editors of the Old Testament looked back upon those--only just a couple of generations--days when Southern Judah and Jerusalem fell under the rule of the Northern Samaria, as if the reign of David & Solomon were some Idyllic period, and insist on calling themselves "Israel." Historically, the modern country of Israel should probably call itself "Judah."

    More than likely if the "original" Ark of the Covenant were ever found it would not be some supernatural weapon of a children's story, but an old crate full of the Priests scrolls. Their Library they hauled around with them when they were migrants until a Temple could be built for it once they grew roots and settled among the Jebusites in Jebus, later renamed Salem, then later yet Jeru-Salem (Joshua 15:63).


    Just like the Old Testament writings are broken up between 2 separate kingdoms, Samaria and Jerusalem, the New Testament books and letters (epistles) are actually broken up between 2 competing Churches. These were the Church of Jesus' flesh and blood brother James, who carried on the ministry after the flesh and blood Jesus was Executed by the Romans for Sedition; and the Supernatural "Christ" Church of Paul, who you might recall never actually met Jesus "In the Flesh."

    James' Church was following the sayings of their Teacher Jesus whom they thought was the legitimate Bloodline-heir human king of Judea. James' Church was trying to figure out how to carry on its ministry after Jesus was Executed and never had the chance to become Judea's "Anointed" official king and straighten out the mess that was leading up to the Jewish Zealot Rebellion--and the End Of The World As They Knew It--with the Destruction of Jerusalem, renamed Aelia Capitolina, and then their Roman Jewish diaspora. The Roman's would also rename Judea, Palestine which was their Latin version of the more ancient Philistia of the Philistines who lived in that land before the Jews. So the Palestinians/Philistines were there first.

    Paul's Contra-Church (or Anti-Church) was the one with all the Supernatural Faith in the Magic "Christ," and like Televangelists today Paul claimed that Supernatural "Christ" spoke and gave dogma through him. At one point Paul was forced to renounce his "Anti-Christ" dogma and accept James' Church in Jerusalem as the "true" Church.

    But it appears just as soon as James' Church was destroyed along with the rest of Jerusalem by the Romans in c. 70 CE, that not only did Paul start up his "Anti-Christ" Church again among the Roman gentiles, but also the Supernatural Jesus Gospels begin to get written well after many of the Epistles.

    Paul and his followers were the Anti-Christs (yes, plural) that are only mentioned 5 whole times in the Epistles of 1 & 2 John. A different John than the John who wrote the book of Revelation where there is no Anti-Christ mentioned and seems to be one of Paul's followers with his allegorical apocalypse.

    I wanted to mention this because The History Channel is showing a movie about the book of Revelation and mentioning both the "Anti-Christ" and "The Rapture" neither of which are actually mentioned in the book of Revelation (aka the Apocalypse of St. John).

    The idea of the "Rapture" is fairly modern and was not propounded until set forth by Philip Doddridge in his 1738 Practical Reflections on the Character and Translations of Enoch, and by John Gill in his 1748 An Exposition of the Revelation of St. John the Divine and articulated in an essay published in Philadelphia in 1788 by Baptist preacher Morgan Edwards, an original Fellow for the chartering of the College in the English Colony of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations (today's Brown University in the Ivy League), about the pre-Tribulation Rapture, the view that Christian believers will be Translated to Heaven with "Christ" before the events of the Tribulation, based on his interpretation of the New Testament's book of First Epistle to the Thessalonians (i.e. 1 Thess 4:17) and popularized in 1827 by the Anglo-Irish evangelist and Father of modern Dispensationalism John Nelson Darby and still being propagated today at Bob Jones University and the Dallas Theological Seminary and by preachers and authors such as (The Late Great Planet Earth) Hal Lindsey and (Left Behind) Tim LaHaye.

    And here they are mixing the non-Biblical books of Enoch (Von Daniken's favorite) in with the Biblical books, most of which need to be understood allegorically for their own times and intended audience and not as if they are a cohesive whole as many of the Biblical writers were actually at odds with one another over doctrine.

    So, two Old Testament kingdoms and the New Testament's two, Church and Anti-Church. And it seems like only the Supernatural Anti-Church and its anti-Christ followers survived:





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